Microsoft's Randy Siegel equates using a BlackBerry with sending data to Canada
by Darren Murph 
posted Jan 27th 2009 at 10:56PM
Whoa, Nelly! There's a 74.6 percent chance that Microsoft's Randy Siegel will never, ever live this down. After finding that newly inaugurated president Barack Obama could keep his BlackBerry, Mr. Siegel -- who is an enterprise mobile strategist that works on federal government projects -- was quoted as saying the following about using a device whose creator is based in Canada: "You would be sending your data outside the country; we wouldn't want the casual musings or official communications of the most important person in the world being intercepted by others." Everyone get that? Owning a RIM device means that every bit and byte you send and receive is being carefully monitored by Canucks up in the Great White North, regardless of your hometown or carrier. Thanks for the laughs, Randy -- we needed 'em today.[Via RCRWireless]
Filed under: Culture, Handsets, RIM, Windows Mobile, BlackBerry OS
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
reuvypoo @ Jan 27th 2009 11:05PM
I can so see Jim Balsillie sitting at a computer reading all of Obama's top secret communication...NOT. Security is one of RIM's top priorities. I agree, this guy is a moron.
Janice @ Jan 27th 2009 11:32PM
Someone with the security clearances could read them. It woudln't be the first time someone entrusted with top security jobs goes astray.
Anyways, his comments were funny. Anyone who reads too much into them needs to get a sense of humor
Jeff @ Jan 27th 2009 11:50PM
IT Professionals love their power trips.
Jef @ Jan 28th 2009 12:08AM
Yeah...because ya know...RIM is super secret and won't let just anyone monitor the Blackberry network...
Oh Wait...
http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/22/rim-allows-indian-government-to-monitor-blackberry-network/
Jef
Owen V @ Jan 28th 2009 12:11AM
I for one agree with him, you never could trust those canadians.
Roger Alford @ Jan 28th 2009 12:19AM
Because Canada is a country we are at war with, have been at war with for years, and will continue to be at war with.. this guy is TOTALLY right. We should be sending our information to places that are our friends, like Iran and Iraq, and Afghanistan instead.
NOT!!!
Im pretty sure Microsoft is pissed that they dont have pushmail, they dont have a messenger client thats actually secure and worthy to use that DOESNT REQUIRE BOTH A TEXT AND DATA PLAN (yes MSN does require both, talk to OZ about that), and is pissed that any servers that Windows does use are NOT secured...but since they are in the USA, they must be better right? Watergate - is all Im saying, at least Canada hasnt had a major security breach of government offices, let alone RIM offices, where as the USA has them all the time.
STFU MICROSOFT AND GET OVER IT!
livinonnosleep @ Jan 28th 2009 12:39AM
Roger. Ever heard of direct push technology? They use it in windows live accounts and also MS exchange server that does not require a text plan. At all. Just a data connection. Check your facts.
eezak @ Jan 28th 2009 12:36AM
Owen V - you MUST be an ignorant american .. perhpas no-one should trust you or your country, mmmkay .. do you know how a blackberry works? do you know how the network operates? i would guess not .. now, you can shut the fuck up and go back to Warcraft
Christopher Wilson @ Jan 28th 2009 1:10AM
sarcasm.
live_strong @ Jan 28th 2009 1:06AM
eh?
thom06 @ Jan 28th 2009 1:12AM
Jeeze Microsoft get a leash on your people! Honestly I love Windows in almost all of its iterations, but WM flat out sucks compared to a BB and as a salesman in the industry you bet I push people towards a BB, much less headache for them AND for me if they come back for tech support. Microsoft seems to think that just because they are the big guy they can go out and trash other products, well that's all fine and dandy when the trashing has some merit, but this guy is off his rocker! The entire point of a BB is security why the hell do you think that tons of corporations use them? Dumb, Microsoft you are digging your own grave, stop trashing and put out WM 7 already!!! Oh and make sure it's actually worth the ridiculous wait...until then I expect I'll continue to push BB's over WM and definitely over that Palm crap because they were so smart and put their new device on Sprint...Sprint of all people come on Palm get a clue! Sorry to rant...just my 2 cents.
cchaser @ Jan 28th 2009 1:16AM
well, , when RIMM has trouble with their servers, everyone's blackberry go dead and can't get email.
so there are some sort of dependency on the RIMM servers, so even if not every byte is sent to canada, it does make you wonder who have what access to those emails.
Abdel @ Jan 28th 2009 1:15AM
First I don't think President Obama will share secret information on his blackberry. Maybe get in touch with family and friends but being careful. Also remember he had the choice between a WinMo device and his Blackberry, so he might actually know the difference and why people wanted him to get a device that uses a "secure" network.
Servoisgod @ Jan 28th 2009 10:58AM
Um, he probably choose the BB because he USES a BB? If you had to choice to pick between a Mac and a PC and you had only ever used a PC, would you go with a Mac?
I doubt that he knows the difference between the security of the two and from the sounds of some of the people that are replying on the subject that RIM is more secure than WM, they seem to have the same amount of knowledge.
Here is a little read to take a look at:
http://www.dsd.gov.au/infosec/evaluation_services/epl/mobile_products/windows_mobile_v6.1.html
And what is Common Criteria Certification?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Criteria
To me it all really depends on preference. I prefer to use a device that doesn't force you to go through a RIM servers because I like to know that I have control of my data and not some 3rd party. Also if there is a problem with a outage, I know that it's probably my fault and not someone else's...anyone remember with RIM went offline those times?
Anyways, these are just my opinions.
dennispg @ Jan 28th 2009 1:21AM
so maybe im confused... doesnt all blackberry traffic actually pass through a RIM owned server at some point, regardless of BIS, carrier, BES whatever? is that not true?
either way, the man never said blackberry was "carefully monitoring" every byte and bit of data. good job putting words in peoples mouths engadget!
Tom R. @ Jan 28th 2009 1:37AM
Honestly, The president should be using products made in the U.S. Not many cell phones are made here but the OS's certainly are. Obama should be endorsing U.S. technology like Apple or Microsoft. I don't believe the Canadians are stealing sensitive presidential information but to advertise an affinity for foreign software over a domestic equal seems tantamount to boosting a foreign currency while depleting our own. Obama is riding the popularity tidal wave. No one would dare suggest to him that he could be hurting U.S. job prospects.
It's the same reason that Air Force One is a Boeing and not an Airbus.
badonkadonk @ Jan 28th 2009 9:09AM
Yeah, I guess those R&D sites RIM has in Dallas, Chicago and Plantation are all tiny parts of Canada, huh? Surely they don't contribute to the US economy...
Screw that "Made in America" BS - Apple proudly claims their stuff to be "Designed in Cupertino" because 100% of it is manufactured in China. RIM still manufactures their new devices in Waterloo as well as contract plants in Mexico and Hungary...
Tony2X @ Jan 28th 2009 1:45AM
Actually I see his point, corporate rhetoric aside. Blackberry's push architecture is all managed by RIM and I'm pretty certain that they have datacentres in the US but that aside I work for one of the large web based email providers and I have access to tools that can see the content of anyone's mailbox. I'm sure RIM have the same technology as they will be subject to the same subpoenas that we are to get access to someone's data under a court order.
I find it a little scary that a court order could gain access to Obama's 'berry but in reality I think it is a moot point as I doubt the NSA will be handing the President an out the box Blackberry Bold. I would say that whatever software sits on the Presidential cellphone bears little or no relation to the one that you and I might be using.
David @ Jan 28th 2009 3:16AM
Uhh...all North American data traffic flows through RIM's data centers in Ontario, Canada.
So, what Randy Siegel is saying is entirely correct.
Ryan Beesley @ Jan 28th 2009 6:08AM
Yeah, that was my understanding too. I thought maybe they had changed things lately, but you more or less reconfirmed what I already knew. WM5+ w/ SFP (I believe that was the update name), gives you direct push, direct from an exchange server, and over an encrypted data layer. It is no less secure than WebMail access because it works over the same data connection. While I doubt RIM would want to monitor my email, this is a major sticking point for me and why I've been using my Treo 700w for a few years now. I'm now getting a G1 (enroute presently), but I'm not going to use my new phone with my work email system.
badonkadonk @ Jan 28th 2009 9:50AM
Yes, all data flows through RIM's NOC in Canada. And it is still encrypted from the device to the BES / BIS, even through the NOC - at no point can RIM intercept data that is un-encyphered.
This isn't news, this is Microsoft FUD
Sovereign Technologies @ Jan 28th 2009 3:35AM
But just out of curiosity, what if that data raw or in whatever form actually does travel out of the country and back? Is an enterprise corporate security level platform sufficient for military grade security requirements? I'm just asking questions, all joking aside. I hope the babysitters know what to watch for and get at least the definition of a NOC handed to them. I don’t understand why they didn’t just give King Obama an iPhone, since Macs never get a virus. Why make it so complicated. We should get serious about this, being that Jesus is turning away everyone who doesn’t show up with an iPhone at the pearly gates. It's true …or, you dumb a%% you don’t know this!, what a retard, I sooo know more than you, …or that just isn't so, I just cant believe that is the case, therefore because I don’t care to find out and don’t have to since my opinions are fact they were preloaded on my hard drive at birth, therefore it's not so, …or I'm just going jump on the piss and vinegar bandwagon even though I have no idea what they are talking about, because the other people doing the same will stand up for with me so they don’t look wrong either. Really folks, it's important to have an opinion and voice that opinion, we still get to do that in this country, but just remember the opinion itself posses no power to like a fool ;-)
Matt G @ Jan 28th 2009 12:10PM
What.. the fsck... did you just say?
Nelson @ Jan 28th 2009 8:57AM
Putting platform preferences and features aside, I think Mr. Siegel is bringing up a few questions that deserve attention whether he intended to bring them up or not:
1) Should the e-mail sent by the President of the Unites States be routed through another country?
2) In light of a weakening economy, should the president support American technologies rather than foreign?
What do the rest of you think?
SandeshM @ Jan 28th 2009 9:10AM
"Uhh...all North American data traffic flows through RIM's data centers in Ontario, Canada."
Not true, there is another NOC in Virginia, specifically for government data. And all data going through any of the NOCs are heavily encrypted.
Nelson @ Jan 28th 2009 9:08AM
If the answer to question 1 is "NO" then BlackBerry is not the right choice for the President because BlackBerry's architecture routes e-mail through the NOC in Canada even when you are using the BlackBerry Enterprise Server (BES) in your office. That is just the way it is, at least for now anyways. If the answer is "YES" then that is an issue for the NSA to worry about.
arkanpyra @ Jan 28th 2009 10:55AM
First of all, Obama didn't have a "choice" between a Blackberry and Windows device. He supposedly made a deal with someone that allowed him to keep his Blackberry. No one knows who, and it is fishy because he states he is going to use it for "strictly personal" communication. Which is fine and dandy until something arises and he refuses to release information that was "strictly personal". He was given the option of two devices that were "Blackberry-like" but not actual Blackberrys. Secondly, regardless if there is a NOC in Virginia or not, a company that is foreign-owned can have alterior motives and easy access to any data it sees fit. The server may be in Virginia but the company is Canadian-owned. Canadians are much more liberal and free-flowing with cooperation with certain countries that have terrorist ties. Not saying that they are just gonna hand over stuff to people like Bin Laden, but anything is possible these days. Obama is making the rules as he goes along, demanding things change but setting a bad example....America is in the tank so promote Canadian products.
chris @ Jan 28th 2009 12:05PM
He is using a General Dynamics - Sectera Edge..... not Blackberry. SO he didnt get his wish. This device was mandated before he got in office.
The Sectera Edge is a WinMo device... The Microsoft exec prob should know that the Prez is using a product made by his company!!!
Matt G @ Jan 28th 2009 12:11PM
Go die now. Please.
chris @ Jan 28th 2009 12:41PM
Hater!
arkanpyra @ Jan 30th 2009 9:45PM
http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/Obama-sticks-to-his-BlackBerry-article-a_3926.html
Apparently someone is not up on current events. It was stated even before this article that he is keeping his Blackberry. His press secretary made a statement that they made a "deal" to keep a Blackberry for "stricltly personal" communication.
Cyotik @ Jan 29th 2009 2:32AM
Putting aside for a minute the batshit crazy idea that Canadians might spy on Obama's Blackberry and traffic that information to America's enemies...
What kind of person would willingly subject another to Windows Mobile?
bryceideas @ Jan 29th 2009 7:00PM
Unless you are talking three tier implementation, biometrics, CAC, and local/network dependant, you often rely too much on users to uphold security policies, be security minded, or even be trained in security concepts. FYI, the Sectera Edge dates several years back and took a long time to get approval for usage, not that that makes it any better. It runs WinCE not Windows Mobile. In most cases the platform argument falls apart when trying to hold to any one over the other. Security is only as good as those who practice it....or not....
CNET's story on accused terrorist webmaster Syed Talha Ahsan shows that the military needs to always be a step ahead of the terrorists http://news.com.com/U.K.+Webmaster+accused+of+aiding+terrorists/2100-1028_3-6096818.html?tag=cd.lede
Most interesting in the story is that Ahsan was able to e-mail with U.S. Naval personnel and obtained then-classified plans of a naval battle group operating in the Straits of Hormuz. Their correspondence even included the group's vulnerabilities.
The ability to email such sensitive military documents shows the organization's shortcomings - http://www.essentialsecurity.com/Documents/article15.htm
What else has been emailed out from the military to terrorists?