On par with GSM? Why is Verizon getting their hand held with this? This still isn't even CLOSE to GSM in terms of open availability for phones. Not only that, but where's Verizon's SIM cards? Yeah that's what I thought.
Also they're only guaranteeing any apps for the phones that they WON'T support. What about phones that THEY sell. And why DON'T they support the phones they certify. GSM carriers try and support phones even if they're not sold directly from them (well at least ATT does).
Verizon isn't going to support all of those certified devices because that is not their role in this particular venture. Judging by what I have read today Verizon will continue doing business as usual with their Verizon branded phones sold through their traditional channels. That includes locking down of devices, and supporting them on the same level they currently do.
Through this new system Verizon's robust network will become simply a "dump pipe" for all of these new certified devices. Something people have been screaming for, for years. There are potentially millions of devices on the horizon from hundreds (if not thousands) of manufacturers. Verizon can't (and shouldn't try to) support them all. That will be left in the hands of the manufacturer, as it should be. And because the devices are pre-certified for the network, there aren't supposed to be any connection issues.
And there is no need for a sim card on Verizon's network. Any "unlocked" compatible phone or other device with a valid certified serial number will be allowed to operate on their network. No need for switching or swapping sims. The question still remains if Verizon will be open in the opposite direction. Will they now be willing to unlock their own devices to work on competitor's (Sprint, Alltel, etc.) networks.
And I would love to hear about being able to get support out of AT&T or any other domestic GSM for an unlocked device you purchased from overseas.
SIM cards are NOT coming with LTE. Verizon is still gonna be using CDMA as basis for their network until they completely roll out LTE to ALL their towers which is gonna be a LONG LONG time (like 10 years from now).
While clearly, ATT can't support the actual hardware themselves (because they have no information on it), if you call or get support online they CAN help you get it working on their service. It's so easy it's not even funny. All they have to do is give you the proper ATT internet configuration settings and you're good to go.
As for SIM cards: a lot of people have different phones for different purposes and there is definitely a very clear reason to have phones with interchangeable SIM cards. If for no other reason then to be able to travel overseas.
xB Owner said: "There is no need for a sim card on Verizon's network".
You are right, seen as Verizon uses CDMA/EV-DO. This also means that you need to call Verizon customer support if/when you change phone, and give them the serial number of your phone. (This is how you are identified on their network).
Frankly, the SIM card is a much cleaner solution. It makes it trivial to swap phones (something I am doing right now; I purchased a Sony Ericsson k850i in a local store while my Nokia N95 is in for repair; I will return it once my N95 comes back..)
I completely understand the procedural difference between swapping out a sim and calling into the carrier for a phone swap. My understanding is that these two options are tied into the differing technologies used by the carriers. (CDMA vs. GSM.) And even if Verizon were able to (by some small miracle) begin installing sim slots into their CDMA phones, they would still be virtually useless overseas. (Or domestically for that matter if no other CDMA provider was on board.)
It would still appear that with this policy change for Verizon there will be a couple significant differences between what you can do with them and with a GSM (ATT) carrier. With GSM it will still be a simple card swap with zero guarantee a device or any of its features will work on the new network. (Most features probably will, but if you hit a road block there really is no support from carrier or manufacturer.) With Verizon your choices will still likely be more limited than GSM, but certified non-Verizon devices will be guaranteed to work on the network. Verizon will back up the connection to the network. Software and hardware issues beyond connecting will have to fall back on individual manufacturers. And yes, you will still have to contact Verizon any time you want to activate a new device on your account.
I am just hopeful that this (and the OHA) helps to push all carriers into a more "dumb pipe" style service. Open up your network, and let me choose the device I want to use on it.
And for those thinking I am a Verizon fan boy, it couldn't be further from the truth. I have been with them since T-Mobile hit the US back in '01. And now I am looking to leave them and find a new carrier. I'm waiting to see how a few things within the industry (as well as some phone releases) pan out before making the leap into a two year agreement with either AT&T or Verizon. And right now I am leaning toward AT&T, even though they don't have 3G in my home town.
i agree, there's no way this will even put them "on par" with gsm. i can go to europe and buy an unlocked se w850, bring it home and pop my sim card in it and start using it right away on at&t. hell, i could even use it over there if i wanted to rack up my bill.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
CB17 @ Mar 19th 2008 3:52PM
On par with GSM? Why is Verizon getting their hand held with this? This still isn't even CLOSE to GSM in terms of open availability for phones. Not only that, but where's Verizon's SIM cards? Yeah that's what I thought.
Also they're only guaranteeing any apps for the phones that they WON'T support. What about phones that THEY sell. And why DON'T they support the phones they certify. GSM carriers try and support phones even if they're not sold directly from them (well at least ATT does).
apjain @ Mar 19th 2008 4:17PM
Sim cards are coming with LTE.
xB Owner @ Mar 19th 2008 4:23PM
Verizon isn't going to support all of those certified devices because that is not their role in this particular venture. Judging by what I have read today Verizon will continue doing business as usual with their Verizon branded phones sold through their traditional channels. That includes locking down of devices, and supporting them on the same level they currently do.
Through this new system Verizon's robust network will become simply a "dump pipe" for all of these new certified devices. Something people have been screaming for, for years. There are potentially millions of devices on the horizon from hundreds (if not thousands) of manufacturers. Verizon can't (and shouldn't try to) support them all. That will be left in the hands of the manufacturer, as it should be. And because the devices are pre-certified for the network, there aren't supposed to be any connection issues.
And there is no need for a sim card on Verizon's network. Any "unlocked" compatible phone or other device with a valid certified serial number will be allowed to operate on their network. No need for switching or swapping sims. The question still remains if Verizon will be open in the opposite direction. Will they now be willing to unlock their own devices to work on competitor's (Sprint, Alltel, etc.) networks.
And I would love to hear about being able to get support out of AT&T or any other domestic GSM for an unlocked device you purchased from overseas.
CB17 @ Mar 19th 2008 4:25PM
@apjain
SIM cards are NOT coming with LTE. Verizon is still gonna be using CDMA as basis for their network until they completely roll out LTE to ALL their towers which is gonna be a LONG LONG time (like 10 years from now).
CB17 @ Mar 19th 2008 4:53PM
@xB Owner
While clearly, ATT can't support the actual hardware themselves (because they have no information on it), if you call or get support online they CAN help you get it working on their service. It's so easy it's not even funny. All they have to do is give you the proper ATT internet configuration settings and you're good to go.
As for SIM cards: a lot of people have different phones for different purposes and there is definitely a very clear reason to have phones with interchangeable SIM cards. If for no other reason then to be able to travel overseas.
Tor Slettnes @ Mar 19th 2008 4:59PM
xB Owner said:
"There is no need for a sim card on Verizon's network".
You are right, seen as Verizon uses CDMA/EV-DO. This also means that you need to call Verizon customer support if/when you change phone, and give them the serial number of your phone. (This is how you are identified on their network).
Frankly, the SIM card is a much cleaner solution. It makes it trivial to swap phones (something I am doing right now; I purchased a Sony Ericsson k850i in a local store while my Nokia N95 is in for repair; I will return it once my N95 comes back..)
xB Owner @ Mar 19th 2008 7:10PM
I completely understand the procedural difference between swapping out a sim and calling into the carrier for a phone swap. My understanding is that these two options are tied into the differing technologies used by the carriers. (CDMA vs. GSM.) And even if Verizon were able to (by some small miracle) begin installing sim slots into their CDMA phones, they would still be virtually useless overseas. (Or domestically for that matter if no other CDMA provider was on board.)
It would still appear that with this policy change for Verizon there will be a couple significant differences between what you can do with them and with a GSM (ATT) carrier. With GSM it will still be a simple card swap with zero guarantee a device or any of its features will work on the new network. (Most features probably will, but if you hit a road block there really is no support from carrier or manufacturer.) With Verizon your choices will still likely be more limited than GSM, but certified non-Verizon devices will be guaranteed to work on the network. Verizon will back up the connection to the network. Software and hardware issues beyond connecting will have to fall back on individual manufacturers. And yes, you will still have to contact Verizon any time you want to activate a new device on your account.
I am just hopeful that this (and the OHA) helps to push all carriers into a more "dumb pipe" style service. Open up your network, and let me choose the device I want to use on it.
And for those thinking I am a Verizon fan boy, it couldn't be further from the truth. I have been with them since T-Mobile hit the US back in '01. And now I am looking to leave them and find a new carrier. I'm waiting to see how a few things within the industry (as well as some phone releases) pan out before making the leap into a two year agreement with either AT&T or Verizon. And right now I am leaning toward AT&T, even though they don't have 3G in my home town.
!!! @ Mar 19th 2008 6:25PM
Wow. There are fanboys for mobile standards, too? What do you DO with your life to be so pathetic?
slamEVIL @ Mar 19th 2008 6:40PM
i agree, there's no way this will even put them "on par" with gsm. i can go to europe and buy an unlocked se w850, bring it home and pop my sim card in it and start using it right away on at&t. hell, i could even use it over there if i wanted to rack up my bill.