So there's been a relatively weighty
grassroots effort the past few weeks to convince HTC that there's something horribly flawed with its Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices -- essentially that video acceleration isn't nearly as well off as it could be because the company isn't taking advantage of the chipset's ATI Imageon circuitry. HTC has weighed in on the hullabaloo today, and in short, the news isn't good for anyone hoping to get a software update out of the deal: "HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smartphones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats," reads the official response, in part. Furthermore, the company has officially confirmed that Imageon drivers are not in use on the affected devices, but that it "plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support." To be totally fair, HTC never promised Imageon acceleration to begin with -- but it's a shame that we'll apparently be looking at buying new hardware to get it.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
plh2034 @ Jan 22nd 2008 4:37PM
It's the carrot on the string.
If they gave you everything now why would you buy the next device
Shadesof Doom @ Jan 22nd 2008 5:24PM
Yeah, sounds like the differentiation between a couple models of the HTC will simply be a software switch enabling the accelerator!
quxjox @ Jan 24th 2008 3:24AM
DOESN'T PLAY VIDEO???
U guys kidding me??My Sony Ericsson P990 had HUGE problems.For starters,the hardware was not sufficient to handle the faulty software.The phone used to reboot everyday sometimes during a call.The camera makes out of focus pictures.The alarm never worked well...i even had 3-4 sleepless nights due to that.The sound is not audible enough when playing music/video.There is no way to close an application.
At any given time the total free ram is less than 10 mb(for a smartphone)...meaning you can never browse and listen to music at the same time(either one of the application closes or the phone reboots).
And we paid us$ 750 for this brick.Then later thay said they are stopping support for the device (about a year after launch)by stopping firmware updates.
And when we complained(well HTC said our future products have these things...but wait to see what SE said)SE officially said (something like this)...WE find the product with current firmware very satisfactory to use and if you don't like it,BUY our new phone P1i which has many of these issues sorted out.
We got this official word when hundreds of P990,M600 and W950 users complained at the SE dev forum.
WE even distributed flyers at a famous mobile phone show in europe last year but SE simply turned a blind eye.
Am surprised that due to video playback problems,(engadget made a news entry,but never made a news entry for out p990 problems)HTC owners are planning a lawsuit...
My P990 was the biggest mistake i ever made with my money.Will never forgive SE for this.
This is not Spinal Tap @ Jan 22nd 2008 4:38PM
well no htc based android's for me, they sure don't know how to take care of their customers, hopefully samsung will come out with a nice android device
JAmerican @ Jan 22nd 2008 4:39PM
This is what happens when you have a large market share in any market. You become arrogant/cocky and your products become cheaper because you nickel and dime everything. The HTC devices have made amazing advancements but now it seems they do more gimmicks than usefulness. Like the Tilt is cool but I would rather a larger screen than a tilting one. BTW, the RAM should have been 128MB in their devices since WM6 was announced. (Referring to earlier version of HTC Touch and Mogul).
I really hope a new company emerges and really challenges them.
Dave @ Jan 22nd 2008 4:51PM
Dear TyTn II customers,
Go fuck yourselves. but buy our next product!
Love,
HTC
Dave @ Jan 22nd 2008 4:54PM
Sorry, when it takes my screen LITERALLY 1.5 seconds to switch from horizontal to landscape when i open the keyboard, there is DEFINITELY something wrong with the video drivers. HTC is making this sound like all we are bitching about is ATI Imageon support, but what we want is a directdraw fix so our displays dont suck ass. This is my 4th and last HTC device. Fuck you HTC, I will never buy you again. Seriously. Never.
tyeo098 @ Jan 22nd 2008 5:01PM
Horizontal and landscape are the same things.
-Ty
Dave @ Jan 22nd 2008 5:04PM
sorry its the anger in me writing this...i meant from vertical to landscape, but thanks for the correction
Andrew @ Jan 22nd 2008 5:24PM
Why don't you say portrait and landscape or horizontal and vertical? Why you gotta mix it up man?!
Haha, no, I'm sorry, I'm only teasing.
derX @ Jan 22nd 2008 5:07PM
They really were better off being quiet. Seriously. I lost my 8525 and it was no longer under insurance and I was eventually going to upgrade to the Tilt but this totally makes me reconsider.
Again, seriously, they were better off not weighing in.
carlo2 @ Jan 22nd 2008 9:05PM
get an N95!
DonatoM3 @ Jan 22nd 2008 5:23PM
Actually they did promise 3D acceleration. Here is their own press release
http://www.htc.com/press_room/03-press-070905.htm
"The MSM7xxx-series chipsets from Qualcomm are the industry's first to integrate two distinct processors each dedicated to modem and multimedia functions to provide support for third-party operating systems, including Windows Mobile. The MSM7500 for CDMA2000 1xEV-DO Rev. A and MSM7200 for HSPA also feature rich multimedia capabilities such as VGA video encode/decode, 8 megapixel camera, and 3D graphics as well as advanced data functionality with unsurpassed levels of integration. The MSM7xxx-series of Qualcomm chipsets are designed to expand the reach of compelling, connected Smartphone devices into mainstream consumer markets."
"HTC will have launched more than 10 devices based on these two dual-core solutions from the Companys MSM7xxx-series platform. Some of the devices already available include the Mogul by HTC, HTC 6800, HTC 5800 and HTC TyTN II."
DonatoM3 @ Jan 22nd 2008 5:25PM
BTW HTCclassaction.org has already issued a response here
http://www.htcclassaction.org/responses.php#official
Blainer @ Jan 22nd 2008 5:25PM
Honestly, screw HTC. When most of us spend on average about 400-500 dollars on this phone, giving HTC our hard earned cash, they go and do this! I'm seriously reconsidering even owning my device or investing any money into future ones. The way this is working, HTC is about to lose a few customers over this lack of caring.
Josh Girvin @ Jan 22nd 2008 5:32PM
Fuck you HTC. Fuck you. I'm never buying another HTC product again. This is worse than the SE P990i debacle.
NuShrike @ Jan 22nd 2008 5:36PM
WELL, sounds like this will be my first and LAST HTC device since HTC just gave a Palm, Inc. response.
As soon as E-TEN unbugs their devices, I'm going there.
JAmerican @ Jan 22nd 2008 5:39PM
iPhone is looking better and better each day. WM people have no choice really to go to HTC devices. There are only a few non-HTC WM devices. I do not own an iPhone and never considered one. I own a Dash and was considering the TyTn II but after this, forget it.
Calvin Townsend @ Jan 22nd 2008 6:10PM
It's funny to think about it. HTC is seriously angering an ever growing portion of their market over some drivers. All of this is all because of a few tiny pieces of code. Unbelievable!
BTW, this is my third HTC device in a row. There are thousands of people in the same boat as me. And not only will we not be returning as customers, but many potential customers are seeing for themselves that they shouldn't buy HTC products. I'm happy for those of you who didn't have to spend upwards of $1000 to learn this lesson.
Chris S. @ Jan 22nd 2008 6:24PM
I didn't buy an iPhone because it didn't have GPS/A2DP. Now, it has Google's cellphone tower pseudo-GPS, and I'm stuck with a shitty phone that can be customized but can't function like a 400MHz machine.
Thank you, HTC. You just lost a customer and a customer for Microsoft WM.
Bill @ Jan 22nd 2008 6:15PM
C'mon, people, since when has a handset manufacturer magically and significantly boosted the performance of a existing device for free, just by updating a driver? Doesn't happen, hardly ever!
First, it's really rare that after a couple years of R&D on a product, they would miss the opportunity to get the most out of the hardware, or at least close to it. I constantly laugh at the silly rumors regarding phones, MP3 players, etc. where people think there's a hidden feature (like bluetooth in an iPod Touch) that just maybe the mfr will enable later for free. RIGHT!
Second, HTC is in this to make money, like every other company. If the product generally works as advertised, keyword here is "generally", then like any profitable company, they are moving on to the next device. Cell phones have a 2-3 year life span for most, period. They know it, and so do you. That's the game people.
Chris S. @ Jan 22nd 2008 6:25PM
Spring Mogul + GPS. Look into it. Same manufacturer, btw.
Numetheus @ Jan 22nd 2008 7:53PM
Soooo ... I can go out and buy a computer with a top of the line video card, and have the vendor only install stock 2D drivers and it will be okay because the computer world moves quickly? And yes, they can magically improve performance of multimedia two fold by updating drivers. He screen flip can happen instantly if they did. The imageon chipset is capable of 3D acceleration, but no drivers 3D driver. Of course it will run horribly! I want you to spend over $500 on a video card and not install 3D drivers, then play a game and see how far your comment gets you. This is exactly the same thing.
Duncan @ Jan 22nd 2008 8:08PM
The fact is, as pointed out by a previous poster, the press release promised support for the chipset and they've failed to deliver.
It may well be the 'game' but for those of us who waited for the device its damn annoying. HTC doing this also has an impact on the carriers, T-Mobile UK has add-ons including mobile TV (via HSDPA/3G), I might have gone for this if it was supported by the handset, T-mobile don't recommend it for this reason. Aside from this it also means E-Tens offerings look more appealing and I'm actually getting to a point where I'm considering putting my TyTn II on ebay.
Dave @ Jan 23rd 2008 5:06PM
youre retarded, look at all the phones getting WM6 updates on ATT
JonK @ Jan 23rd 2008 10:04PM
Bill, you seem to have no computer knowledge whatsoever and your post clearly displays your ignorance. Do you even know what a device driver is? If you want an example of what it is like to operate without a proper display driver shut your computer down and boot it into VGA mode. Well perhaps you don't know how to do that. The point is yes, a small piece of software can make a very big difference in performance. You shouldn't talk about matters that you have no clue about.
Morghus @ Jan 22nd 2008 6:16PM
I thought HTC were about quality work, pushing out great gadgets and making customers happy. I hope they get their asses handed to them about this.
Bill @ Jan 22nd 2008 6:31PM
I'm sure there are rare exceptions, but you have to admit this is unusual.
JonK @ Jan 23rd 2008 10:22PM
There is nothing unusual about this. Just another example of a company half-assing their product to save a buck and hoping their customers don't notice. HTC failed to deliver on advertised features and we the customers won't stand for it. And yes these features were advertised. The product descriptions do not say Qualcomm MSM7xxx minus the graphics acceleration. They do not say Windows Mobile 6 minus certain graphics APIs (yes there are APIs not just drivers missing from some devices that prevent certain programs from running at all). They say Windows Mobile 6 and a Qualcomm MSM7xxx. If you buy a computer that says it contains a NVIDIA 8600GT graphics card, wouldn't you assume the graphics card is *functional*.
dude @ Jan 22nd 2008 6:46PM
Fuck You HTC - After 4 devices i'm moving to Samsung i900 as soon as it come out.
fyreblazer @ Jan 22nd 2008 8:40PM
See here's the thing (as unpopular as this may sound):
Everybody has and will jump on the "Fuck HTC, I won't buy anything from them again!" bandwagon, and you may have a point, but honestly, HTC DOES NOT CARE and here's why.
Here in the Wash DC area, I've seen countless Wizards, Hermes, Moguls, Touches, even Tilts in the hands of teens & adults alike, that have NO customizations. I've seen a wizard running WM5 about a month ago! Seriously, for every 50 people on xda & here that say they won't buy, there's 200 teens who don't want a sidekick and can't get an iphone that will get a wizard or touch and put rhinestones on it. PPC penetration is the highest it's ever been and it's mostly because HTC products are simply the most advanced in the US and "they look cool".
Bottom line, it was a valiant effort. I signed the petition just like all of you (and I'm on xda everyday), but I can't say I won't buy (or try to receive for free) the TyTN 3 or whatever comes next. And who knows, they may fix everything when the WM 6.1 update comes out.
/Rant
Dave @ Jan 22nd 2008 9:12PM
frankly, I don't give two shits what teenagers in the D.C area are buying, I'm voting with my wallet, and if that means spending an exorbitant amount on a samsung i900 or ETEN device then that's what I will do. I will NEVER buy an HTC device again. I don't give a shit if HTC comes out with a phone that they say has the ability to cure cancer, because even if it had that capability HTC wouldn't provide the drivers for it.
PopsG @ Jan 25th 2008 11:08PM
This is very untrue. Trust me when I say, the loudest minority usually gets its way. Plus a company like HTC knows, even if a small % of its customers are unhappy, their word of mouth can do a lot of damage.
David @ Jan 22nd 2008 8:52PM
I'm a Tilt owner, and have been watching this closely from the start. I hoped HTC would do right, but like many others I'm disappointed.
This is my last HTC device.
Mark @ Jan 22nd 2008 9:03PM
I'm confused... this has a picture of the touch but doesn't actually mention it(nor has any1 on here), does this affect the touch as well? (and, btw, I'm playing doom on my touch right now, take that engadget!)
Richard @ Jan 22nd 2008 9:09PM
it includes ALL HTC devices with the new Qualcomm chipset. Other manufacturers with the new Qualcomm chipset do not have this issue because they included the simple drivers
shogun_16 @ Jan 22nd 2008 9:29PM
that's a yes. Not the original touch, but the latter Touches (from Sprint Touch, Verizon XV6900 and so on.)
shogun_16 @ Jan 22nd 2008 9:32PM
this is the lists of effected devices
Richard @ Jan 22nd 2008 9:07PM
Everyone should read this: THERE IS NO DISCLAIMER THAT THE HARDWARE INCLUDED IN YOUR HTC DEVICE WILL NOT PERFORM TO SPECIFICATIONS!!! With a good lawyer, HTC's actions would be considered ILLEGAL. Read on.
I am at lost of words with HTC's initial decision and current response. I will pray that hopefully this is not official and untrue. When I first learned about this bullshit a few days ago, it never left my mind. It bothers me so much that I'm almost furious. It HAUNTS me that any one or any company would do something like this.
Kodus on the PC vid card analogy. That was the first thing I thought of because I am in the process of building a new PC system. Would anybody here say they would buy ANY piece of hardware without sufficient software? I wouldn't by SLi graphic cards, dual/quad core motherboards, ect without the corresponding software that brings out the potential of those ADVERTISED items. Without the proper software, advanced hardware is useless. The brut is irrelevant without the brains to command it.
http://www.htc.com/press_room/03-press-070905.htm
reading that OFFICIAL article claims that the new chipset will render 3d graphics well blah blah blah. Correct me if I am wrong, but is it not propaganda to claim a certain device will contain certain hardware that has such praised capabilities, state that the device will include this hardware but never state they will be crippled? That is just plain wrong. I feel as if HTC is like a car dealership. Those bastards are always trying to rip you off. They always try to cut corner and they basically lie for the deadly sin of greed. You can not advertise such specifications without fulfilling them. You open up a DeLL catalog and you see a laptop you would like to buy...you receive that laptop with all proper utilities to fulfill it's projected specifications. If a computer claims to have a certain GPU/CPU/whatever and through individual knowledge, we know that graphics processor, ect is powerful (the reason WHY WE SPEND OUR MONEY ON IT), so we assume it will perform (which is why we pay a certain amount for it). It comes with common sense.
Corporations CAN NOT claim to have certain hardware and withhold its capabilities without disclaiming.
***Claiming the beefed up hardware is a marketing tactic to gain more sales but neglecting the software that makes this hardware performance possible is plain ILLEGAL.***
That would be considered a form of false advertisement/corrupt marketing/thievery. Would you buy their HTC device if it had an average processor/gpu at the bloated price tag? Who of those crazy enough to say yes to the above question would buy their HTC device at the high price tag (which is set at that price range b/c of the device specifications - which are advertised for sale/interest purposes) KNOWING that HTC claims to include a NEW & FAST 400MHz dual core processor which is capable of high performing 2d/3d graphics but also tell you that you will not receive included drivers to take advantage of this hardware? ***Well, quite frankly, HTC did not tell you your hardware will be crippled via software. They lied to you. They made you believe you were receiving a product that really isn't what you paid for. That would be ILLEGAL. ***THERE IS NO DISCLAIMER THAT THE HARDWARE INCLUDED IN YOUR HTC DEVICE WILL NOT PERFORM TO SPECIFICATIONS!!!*** If they did not claim the specifics, then HTC would be covered, but they did gloat so they are in obligation to fulfill their previously false statements.
I know there is more to be said but I am truly baffled now. I will defend our rights some more later.
Joel Stephen @ Jan 23rd 2008 3:15AM
Preach on brother
Mark @ Jan 22nd 2008 9:10PM
heh, guess I'm out of the loop, does the touch include the qualcomm chipset?
Dave @ Jan 22nd 2008 9:14PM
no only the new touch (Sprint Mogul)
BChau @ Jan 22nd 2008 10:05PM
I hope HP can rise up to challenge and become a viable alternative to HTC. Their desktop and laptop products are getting better and better. Their current PDA phones are OK but not spectacular. But if HP keeps on improving their products, my next PDA phone may well be from HP.
RedOut @ Jan 22nd 2008 10:43PM
You wanna know why Slingbox video sucks on your 6800 no matter how fast your connection is? This, more specifically the direct draw drivers that were written by retards is the problem.
Dave @ Jan 22nd 2008 10:52PM
Credit goes to digitaltigre on Xda-Devs (mod please make this the title pic, its wayyy funnier and wayyy truer)
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5116/driversnotincluded3db2.png
Rob @ Jan 23rd 2008 1:03AM
First, I got my Tilt for $75 and love it.
Second, even if it is BS that HTC screwed up and may not fix it, YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT HP TO TAKE OVER. Hewlett Packard, HP, has the worst customer support... so don't even think about getting something more complicated than a printer.
Lastly, maybe the guys and girls from XDA will pull off a semi-miracle and put together some drivers. Gotta think positive in today's world.
Check out http://www.lakeridgesoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12426
by Vico
Q Mobile 1.2
Garment69 @ Jan 23rd 2008 7:38AM
At the risk of getting slammed, what is the main issue here? I have been using the Spring Touch for about a month and I have noticed zero issues relating to video playback. Is it playing high res video that has everybody up in arms?
An_asshole @ Jan 23rd 2008 10:08AM
That's just it, the issue is not just "playing video" in the sense of playing a pre-rendered avi or whatever. The issue is that there is no directdraw video driver for *rendering video.* This has an effect every single time a pixel drawn to the screen. The CPU has to do all the damn work rather than offloading it onto the specialized video rendering chip that is sitting right there waiting to be used. For simple operations the CPU is more than enough to render so it isn't as noticable (except that it eats into battery life.) Have you ever used your PC in 640x480 mode without a video driver installed? That's exactly what this is like.
A good way to see the problem is to try to use the camera on the Tilt. The viewfinder is a slideshow, mine has literally 1000ms lag between frames. The viewfinder on my old Blackjack? Smooth as silk. This is a shame because the camera on the tilt takes nice photos, but it is essentially unusable because the viewfinder is so slow.
In short, this isn't just about playing "high resolution" videos (who the fuck considers 320x240 to be "high resolution"?) on the device, this is about rendering pixels to the screen of the device, regardless of the source. It affects the UI, the camera, battery life, and yes, playing video files.
tokyotechy @ Jan 23rd 2008 10:31AM
Thanks HTC. TyTN II owner. My 2nd, and last HTC device. Go fuck yourselves.
Isildain @ Jan 23rd 2008 11:56AM
I just bought a new car. It's a 6 cylinder BMW, dual turbo-charged engine with 300hp. Unfortunately, it only had 4 spark plug wires. I went to the dealer, and asked for the other two so that I could have all of the horses available, and I was told that the car performs equal to that of many domestic american autos, and that it gets me to work just fine. When I pressed them to get the full version of the engine, I was told that instead of my top of the line 3 series, I would need to upgrade to the 5 series for a little bit of money. I pointed out that my older 3 series had a smaller engine that worked better, and while they agreed, they still said that all of the new 6 cylinder engines came with only 4 sparkplug wires, and that they would not change.
Of course, this is just a parable, but guess which brand I would NOT buy next time?