One RIM CEO pans iPhone while the other pans Windows Mobile
Wow, it's pretty tough to knock these dudes off their high horses, isn't it? RIM's generally held a flippant attitude toward Apple's and Microsoft's mobile efforts -- an attitude that's at least partially justified thanks to the company's immense success in corporate channels and with many, many carriers, granted, but you'd think they'd at least pretend to respect their adversaries. In recent chats with media, one of RIM's two CEOs, Mike Lazaridis, said that the iPhone has "severe limitations" resulting from its virtual keyboard, reminding reporters that real phones have real keyboards and pointing to Palm's licensing of RIM's keyboard design for its Treo series. He went on to thank the iPhone for drawing consumers' collective attention to smartphones -- attention that he's apparently figuring RIM can steal once customers are in carriers' shops with cash in hand. Meanwhile, RIM's other CEO Jim Balsillie went on record saying that he doesn't believe Windows Mobile is a "big competitor" to their business, a bold statement considering that Microsoft's mobile platform continues to become more enterprise-focused with efforts like Mobile Device Manager. Don't get too comfortable, fellas![Via Smartphone Thoughts]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Ben @ Nov 14th 2007 11:05AM
After having my palm 650 replaced by a palm 700W with windows mobile, I can confirm that windows mobile is about 8-12 years behind blackberrys and palm os for phone use. I agree 100% that windows mobile needs atleast 3-5 more versions before anyone could *think* of using it. Its the biggest POS phone os ive ever seen. Drains batteries about 5 times faster then blackberry or palm os and only adds about 6-8 button presses to most of the common functions compaired to palm and BB. I hope microsoft just gives up already so that people dont get fooled into buying this shit.
Miranda Kali @ Nov 14th 2007 11:21AM
It's getting pretty stale hearing Apple's keyboard get trashed. Sorry folks, but there are those of us out there who don't plan on writing a tome on our mobile devices. As far as I'm concerned, an ugly-ass physical keyboard takes up valuable space that could be used for a screen.
If I'm out and about, I do far more web-surfing and video watching than I do typing. It's about bloody time someone came out with a mobile device that wasn't focused on productivity. All work and no play makes Jane a dull girl, indeed.
Hein Low @ Nov 14th 2007 11:24AM
Ben get back to work at RIM!
elgee02 @ Nov 14th 2007 5:09PM
Haha now that cracked me up. He does sound like a RIM employee.
Hein Low @ Nov 14th 2007 11:24AM
and when will RIM do 3G? win mobile has it for years now
erics @ Nov 14th 2007 11:31AM
One thing that Blackberries certainly need to work on though, is the fact that they are no good as cell phones, poor signal etc. They were obviously designed for email first and calling second, no doubts about it. So in that regard, Palm AND Windows have them beat.
erics @ Nov 14th 2007 11:32AM
3g? Uh, you hear of Sprint or Verizon? Both have had EVDO BB's for quite some time now.
FyreStarrter @ Nov 14th 2007 11:46AM
Nah I have to agree with Ben about Windows Mobile "Smartphones" They are POSs for sure. I will occasionally buy one hoping that they have improved things & then the second it freezes (& they ALWAYS DO) I quickly send it back. I also agree with Miranda to a point that a virtual Keyboard is somewhat better for those who don't do a lot of typing or emails. Apple has that hands down. BUT what RIM does best is email & lots of it. Now they are starting to come out with some more consumer based models & starting to have more success in arenas that they didn't before. He is right that Apple has brought more attention to the smartphone but if you are just the average consumer, not a corporate customer when you walk into the store with CC in hand & pair up an iPhone next to an 8830 or an 8310 etc more than likely you will go home with the iPhone (although RIM has a somewhat simple interface the iPhone just has that part THUMBS down). I however, am the customer who loves both push email AND multimedia capabilities. So I have to have a great keyboard or else the device just doesn't work for me. RIM needs to openly acknowledge that Apple has made inroads where they could not. (I don't expect M$ to admit anything lol, they put out Vista as an upgrade didn't they?)
DeisCane @ Nov 14th 2007 1:06PM
I just joined a new company and was forced to switch to a Windows Mobile-based Smartphone. What a piece of dreck. Unfortunately, the company is consolidating on anything from Redmond, so Blackberries are going the way of the dodo.
TC @ Nov 14th 2007 1:07PM
My comments are from the point of view of a person who has used the Windows Mobile software since I had my first PDA, a Casio Casseopia (sp?) in 1998...I know, I know..someone else out there has used it longer. I have also used almost all of the Blackberrys as my personal phone and currently use an iPhone.
The iPhone keyboard is revolutionary and as much as I LOVE Blackberrys, RIM needs to get over themselves and give up the spin. I have used the Curve and the 8800 BB and while the keyboards are nice, they pale in comparison to the iPhone keyboard once you have devoted a few days and it has learned your typing habits.
On Window Mobile as a phone OS...it is pure trash and has been for pretty much all of its existence. I have tried and tried and tried using phones with every WM iteration but in its attempt to be the swiss army knife of OS, it fails in almost every aspect of reliable usability. My personal favorite memory was when the alignment of my WM VX6700 had wandered to a point where I would have to almost tap OUTSIDE of the screen to select or slide the screen. A guy that works next to me LOVES the Treo but admits that WM is trash. He came to be with a sync question recently and I asked him how many computers, exchange, etc... ONE PC, no exchange... it doesn't even work reliable in its most basic of tasks.
RIM is an incredible company that makes incredible products and possibly the most stable smartphone OS in existence. However, they need to apply this brilliance to other things than trying to trash the iPhone IMO.
fyreblazer @ Nov 14th 2007 1:25PM
Oh how I love to see everybody join the "WM bashers" train when there's a post about OS's. II agree that WM6 Standard (smartphone) isn't that good, I've tested an AT&T 3125 & a T-Mo Shadow and didn't like it at all, nor do I like using my fiancee's BB 8830. What I disagree about is WM6 Pro being "trash". It's highly customizable and there's so much software out there for it while Palm OS devs have all but disappeared and BB OS devs never really existed. Although I guess all this will be moot once Android gains steam.
FyreStarrter @ Nov 14th 2007 1:45PM
FyreBlazer: While I will easily agree with you that WM6 Pro is a much better) OS than ALL the WM OSs in the past, the only problem is that is is not offered on enough WM Smartphones today. Most of us that are on engadget everyday spend an average of what $350.00-600.00 on our phones ALONE, not even considering the monthly service plans & charges. Why is it that carriers continue to think its ok to cheat us & offer us a subprime OS, when for a few dollars more out of their pocket not ours they can offer us the OS that's going to cause the least amount of issues for the buyer? I don't currently have an iPhone, but I do have a VZW 8830. And I have tested the iPhone extensively alongside my 8830 & there are pluses to BOTH OSs. But when another Smartphone comes out & it has WM6 Standard on it, I don't even give it a second thought & I KNOW I am not alone. I agree with you too that Blackberry DEV has not been as out there as much as it could have been & Palm is all but dead (although I used to love my Palm Treos). But compared to WM6, they are CLEARLY better functioning choices. All I am saying is the carriers need to do better for the benefit of us the consumer.
PhilR8 @ Nov 14th 2007 3:25PM
Opinions: to each their own. I've been using Windows Mobile for almost two years and am very satisfied by the experience. I just upgraded to an HTC Mogul and am pretty happy.
Of course, I'm one of those guys who spends a couple hours a week hacking and rehacking their phone... if you're not willing to do that (you pretty much have to) then I can definitely see why you wouldn't like Windows Mobile.
MTM @ Nov 14th 2007 4:35PM
Completely agree. If you don't want to spend some time on customizing your phone, you are best off looking at something that doesn't run Windows Mobile. If you, like me, likes to customize, hack, change the settings, interface, etc. on your phone, it is most possibly the best operating system out there at the moment.
I've been using my old Orange SPV C500 (that's Audiovox SMT5600 for the US people) for almost 3 years. Until recently when some of the buttons stopped working (worn hardware) it was the perfect device. I had spend lots of time customizing it and I had every function I needed at my fingertips.
Recently I tested two Windows Mobile devices (HTC S620 and S710), and I thought: Is anyone actually using these things without any customizing, tweaking or hacking? If you use them without any customization they are quite horrible. Way too many key presses to get anything done - maybe with the sole exception of looking up contacts. It can take up to four key presses to get into a message in your inbox... Though, if you do like to fiddle with your phone, they can turn out wonders. Place the shortcuts you need on the places you want etc.
miklm @ Nov 14th 2007 5:10PM
And you expect an average sales guy or executive to spend hours every week "hacking" at their phone just to make it usable? Sorry, that's just not an acceptable solution. I know we phone geeks often lose sight of that, but the average user wants something out of the box they can use. WM5SP was terrible, and I've just tossed my MotoQ in favor of a BlackBerry Pearl from Vzw.
aron @ Nov 14th 2007 5:13PM
I'm also one of those that love to modify my phone, and for my needs, nothing gets better than WinMo6. One of the things that I really appreciate is the international language support. I've got freeware Chinese SIP support, as well as tons of apps created by the community or at least ported over from other HTC phones. Absolutely amazing. Not to mention all the other software out there, particularly the staggering variety of productivity apps (Powerpoint editors and remotes galore). BB may be great for e-mail, but for everything else, I still think WM6 is the best.
Sure, the factory ROM crashed like there's no tomorrow, but ever since upgrading to some cooked WM6 roms, freezing has been kept to a minimum. The only gripe I have is the horrid software keyboard, but who cares when I've got a slick sliding qwerty? I swear I can type faster on it than on a BB.
Matt @ Nov 14th 2007 7:51PM
I agree with so many of the comments here. I've tried and tried with WM phones. My latest was the Wing. I agree that you have to use hacks and 3rd party apps to make the phone functionally adequate, but those same hacks and programs seemed to further destabilize an already unstable OS. I didn't mind having to mod the phone, but most people would. I could never actually recommend the OS to others.
I ended my loyalty to Palm after years of stagnation, when WM surpassed it. I just ended years of loyalty to WM when missing a high volume of calls (20% or so) because of the phone freezing or running too slowly to respond when I attempted an answer became a serious problem.
I'm a new Blackberry user (Curve) and I must say that I'm astounded how great a phone it makes, how stable it is, and how versatile it is. There are tons of apps. Its new multimedia capabilities are so much better than anything from WMedia Player Mobile. It only took 2 or 3 weeks for me to stop habitually tapping at the screen with my fingernail. I think I'm over it now.
I'd love to go iPhone if it becomes a little more business-centric, open to customizations, and when AT&T's exclusivity runs out. I refuse to pay their comparatively ridiculous voice and data rates.
FyreStarrter @ Nov 14th 2007 6:46PM
So in other words unless you are a hacker & a tweaker the WM5SP or WM6 Standard is NOT for you. I can agree with that assessment. But too many times when I had WM phones did I have a freezing issue (or worse a SEVERELY anemic processor) & had to HARD reset out in the most inopportune places. I am not saying that its the worst OS (ok yeah that is what I am saying but...), I just think that it takes too much hacking & tweaking to make it a BETTER OS. & I agree with Mikim that the average sales guy or executive is NOT going to have nor WANT to take the time to do all those things to make it work how they need it when they need it. It sux, I know but that's a very true statement.
Harry @ Nov 15th 2007 12:21AM
2007 - "real smartphones have keyboards"
1981 - "real men don't use mice"
1954 - "real men drive a stick shift"
1920 - "real men start their cars with hand cranks"
1844 - "real men dont tap out messages over WIRES!"
Don't believe everything you read in print...
Especially when a company is talking about their competitors.
briancspam @ Nov 15th 2007 10:30AM
Analysts are estimating this year that RIM will sell about 13 million phones.
That's with an existing installed user base of over 10 million, it's estimated that about half of the 13 million phones they will sell are replacements, and the rest, 6 or 7 million, new users.
This 13 million phones is with all the major US carriers, offering several different models, with over 300 carriers across the world, and includes a dominant market share in the US enterprise that they have been working to build around 7+ years.
Apple just sold over 1 million phones with one carrier, in one country, in one quarter, offering only one phone. They sold nearly one and half million phones in one quarter and two days.
They project they will sell 10 million next year. If they do, they will nearly match RIM's business in their first full year in offering a cell phone, with limited carriers, in only certain countries. It's entirely possible that they could be selling more phones than RIM within a couple of years of entering the business.
Now, it's not a perfect product, and certainly is not for everyone, but the tenor of his comments imply that it is a failure, that it can't compete with him, and that they'll be licensing technology keyboard technology from him.
Based on the sales, if Apple's phone is a weak effort and a failure, he better hope it's never actually a success.
Constable Odo @ Nov 15th 2007 4:29PM
I like the way they pose with their arms folded. It depicts a closed stance and therefore closed attitude. Good for them. The BlackBerry is truly a formidable device. Their confidence that the Windows Mobile platform amounts to nothing is well warranted. However....
They're going to get knocked on their fat Canuck asses in a couple of years by Apple's iPhone. Within a couple of years the iPhone user base will surpass the BlackBerry. The revenue from all those iPhones sold will probably be ten times RIM's market cap.
The current iPhone is so weak on features, it's a wonder anyone wants one, let alone paying a premium and locked to one lousy network in the US. Most BlackBerrys are so feature rich that they can hardly add any more features in it. Yet...
The Apple will give RIM a run for the money even with all the years of BlackBerry fine-tuning and the iPhone's single lousy first-attempt model.
Harry @ Nov 16th 2007 12:00AM
RIM has a really short track record selling to consumers.
Apple has been selling to consumers since the Apple II.
Very few companies are more in tune with what consumers want than Apple.
Nick @ Nov 16th 2007 1:06AM
hey ben guess what no blackberry have 3g. so even if their user interface pleasures me blackberrys still suck.
Navi Thach @ Nov 16th 2007 1:55AM
Ummm EVDO anyone? And Vodafone has a 3G 8700 series in the UK. And I prefer the BlackBerry myself over the iPhone, but just be GLAD you don't have a LG phone from Verizon, talk about archaic - those things make the Motorola MicroTAC look good!
Nick @ Nov 19th 2007 1:33PM
EVDO - 2.4 mb
hspda - 3.6 mb
so in other words no 3.5 g. blackberrys also aren't customizable worth crap. wm you can install so many programs and any 3rd party software you want. blackberry ui is relatively user friendly but id rather install a bunch of kickass 3rd party software. and the iphone just fails.
trooth @ Nov 17th 2007 7:21PM
Blacbkerry was king of not doing too much and doing it really well. Back in the day when it was a phone + email machine it worked well. Now that they are doing the music, internet, navigation, etc, programs they are much less reliable than they used to be. Blackberries are locking up now. Their email services has seen several shutdowns this year. Blackberry would be better off getting back to basics and worry about blakcberry rather than trying to be an IPhone/WM6 clone.