Verizon chooses LTE for 4G network, hell freezes over
Filed under: Verizon Wireless, Vodafone, EV-DO, UMTS, CDMA
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
??? @ Sep 21st 2007 1:49AM
Not surprising. With the world practically walking away from CDMA (and a few manufacturers, Nokia in particular, outright ceasing all CDMA phone production), it would be smart for Verizon to eventually transition to GSM at some point. It might help them on the "cool phone" front, too.
Sascha @ Sep 21st 2007 9:42AM
Actually, Nokia is a huge player in WCDMA, and they're fighting with Qualcomm in a bloody battle over licensing fees for WCDMA IP.
Not all CDMA is US-version 850/1900 EVDO 1xRTT CDMA2000. Most of the CDMA in the world is WCDMA.
ShortFuse @ Sep 21st 2007 10:11AM
WCDMA is NOT a CDMA technology. WCDMA is a GSM evolution. Basically, it works like this:
GSM = 3GPP Project
CDMA = 3GPP2 Project
3GPP = GSM, GPRS, EDGE, UMTS (WCDMA), HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+, LTE
3GPP2 = CDMAONE, CDMA2000, EV-DO, UMB
Verizon used the 3GPP2 track but is not switching to the 3GPP (GSM) track.
Sascha @ Sep 21st 2007 10:26AM
Sorry, "ShortFuse."
What part of "WCDMA" do you not understand? GSM is a TDMA technology. WCDMA is a CDMA technology. LTE, at least what we expect, will be an OFDM technology.
EDGE is an evolution of GSM.
WCDMA HSDPA is an evolution of WCDMA UMTS.
But between those levels there's a hard break in technologies - you have to install all new radios and there's a different IP portfolio you have to deal with. Qualcomm owns about 20% of the WCDMA patents, for instance.
ShortFuse @ Sep 21st 2007 10:38AM
Sorry, i mean to write "Verizon is now switching" not "Verizon is not switching". That one letter changes the whole sentence :)
read what i said below about HSDPA being "GSM" when it's not the same even the same technology. i know what you're talking about and i'm not confused as to how it works.
Kriston @ Sep 26th 2007 3:56PM
Sascha needs to do some research.
WCDMA is not CDMA technology and is not compatible with CDMA. It is, though, compatible with GSM.
It's a CDMA-like technology that runs on top of a GSM network.
Try Wikipedia for more information.
LH @ Sep 21st 2007 2:39AM
Good bye Qualcomm!
CJ @ Sep 21st 2007 9:19AM
The plan they announced yesterday calls for convergence ~ the year 2015. And besides its all OFDM based, so expect plenty more battles on IP. the biggest loser here is Sprint, all alone with WIMAX
ZSX @ Sep 21st 2007 2:54AM
Um, doesn't Vodafone already own 45% of Verizon?
Mike @ Sep 21st 2007 3:10AM
51%, I believe.
xman @ Sep 21st 2007 9:37AM
Please say Verizon Wireless (not the same as just plain old Verizon) And I believee it is a 50/50 partnership with Vodafone on Verizon Wireless.
ShortFuse @ Sep 21st 2007 10:12AM
Verizon Wireless = 55% Verizon, 45% Vodafone.
If the majority was Vodafone, it wouldn't be called Verizon Wireless. Also, Vodafone would have put it on the 3GPP track which is GSM (see above).
VZWguy @ Sep 21st 2007 2:57AM
this is some gret news huh....verizon will be launching an entirely new network rolled out across the US in a few years, tower buildouts(already started) and the massive overhauling of other towers.
ok seriously this has "oh sh*t" written all over it
Mike @ Sep 21st 2007 3:12AM
I wonder what these means for all those GSM towers Verizon just purchased in the Unicel deal. Perhaps they plan to do more than just rent them out after all. I wonder when their 4G network would be up, anyways... at least, 4-5 years, maybe? It took em long enough to roll out EVDO, and that's still in only a fraction of the country. Hopefully it won't take them nearly that long to roll out 4G- I want me some Verizon GSM.
elgee02 @ Sep 21st 2007 4:19PM
What are you talking about? Verizon was the first to roll out EV-DO (although Sprint was the first with Rev-A) but just a "small fraction"? Clearly you havent seen an EV-DO coverage map, VZW gots over 240 cities covered with EV-DO now, all Rev-A
Mike @ Sep 21st 2007 4:28PM
I sell Verizon Wireless phones, I have definitely seen an EV-DO coverage map. And it's still only a fraction of the country. Sure, it works in most major cities, but geographically-speaking, I would estimate that EVDO covers about 30-40% of the nation. Sure, it reaches a TON of people, most major cities and probably a large percentage of Americans, but it's my personal preference that, no matter where I go, I can get EV-DO coverage (thus, the meaning of the word "coverage"), and right now, there's about 60-70% of the country where I can't.
And I also never said that Sprint was the first to roll out EVDO, nor did I say that Verizon wasn't the first to roll out EVDO, only that they have, and continue to do so, slowly. Please reread my comments before you post your incorrect ones.
elgee02 @ Sep 21st 2007 4:42PM
Well then you don't understand how impracticle and expesnsive it would be for VZW (or any carrier) to cover all the rural farm towns and small cities all over this country. I expect my carrier to do a lot for me, the consumer... but damn I sure as hell doesn't expect VZW to blow money on making sure some town of 5,000 in Iowa has EV-DO... sheesh.
Mike @ Sep 21st 2007 4:56PM
I bow to your limitless wisdom...
elgee02 @ Sep 21st 2007 5:44PM
Well you're the one who readily acknowledges that population-wise VZW's EV-DO covers a vast majority of Americans. Yet you state it is your preference that VZW give you EV-DO wherever you go... so obviously you are ignorant to how expensive and impractical that would be. Sure, it would be nice when camping or traveling to a small town to have some high speed data lovin', but to actually expect that? Wow dude...
You got called out on it, and you copped out with a weak response.
erhan @ Sep 21st 2007 3:51AM
10 years later they will start. I dont think this is going to start soon. GSM rocks.
james @ Sep 21st 2007 8:10AM
it would be better if all the carriers go together with GSM and had t-mobile's prices. I wonder why nobody talks about the carrier in florida with unlimited minutes? If they every came here it would be over for all the carriers because of their cheap unlimited minutes plans.
Iscariote @ Sep 21st 2007 9:08AM
If I can use an unlocked LTE handset on Verizon's network, I'm sold.
Verizon has awesome network coverage but crappy phones with awful software.
xman @ Sep 21st 2007 9:40AM
Do some research... There are other unlimited carriers other than MetroPCS in Florida. You would be surprised! And of course the cheap plans are not national plans but rather local plans for $30-40/mo or so depending on what you get.
Sascha @ Sep 21st 2007 9:42AM
You guys do know LTE is not GSM, right? They're organized by the same standards body, but they're different technologies. LTE also isn't WCDMA. It's something new. If I understand correctly, LTE will require a brand new buildout of E-UTRA OFDM radios which are different hardware from the existing GSM TDMA radios and the UMTS WCDMA radios.
In other words, a portfolio of GSM towers does not help you with LTE. LTE will be a totally new technology that has to be built from the ground up, much as AT&T had to build their WCDMA network from the ground up, as WCDMA is a replacement rather than an evolution from EDGE.
LTE - air interfaces in general - has nothing to do with phone locking, either.
I'm sorry. I know you want to hear that this means Verizon is joining some sort of happy-clappy cuddly world GSM community. But that just isn't the case. This is just a radio access technology. Verizon can very easily superimpose whatever business model they want over that technology.
Also, you guys do know that Qualcomm will have a significant IP portfolio in LTE, right? LTE is based on OFDM, and Qualcomm's Flarion acquisition ensured they'll be a player there.
ShortFuse @ Sep 21st 2007 10:35AM
HSDPA doesn't use GSM technology either but you don't see CDMA devices using HSDPA. People say HSDPA is "GSM" they mean it follows GSM and will have the same standards placed by GSM (SIM cards and separate voice and data channels). LTE is going to use HSOPA, btw, which does use OFDM as you said. I would think Verizon will still use CDMA but use LTE for data only...which means you're going still going to get Verizon only handsets. Maybe AFTER LTE (which Japan will have fully launched by 2010) Verizon will switch their towers to GSM Voice channels and abandon the CDMA ones (like they did with TDMA)
Dave @ Sep 21st 2007 9:57AM
Unfortunately, Verizon Wireless will need 20 years to test the phones to make sure they are released without any "bugs" as they are SO focused on customer service and quality.
beanspants @ Sep 21st 2007 10:44AM
Actually GSM & WCDMA are similar enough were they have common core - all the guts at the MSC can be shared - only the radio receivers themselves can't be shared.
prateeko @ Sep 21st 2007 11:23AM
So LTE is also the natural progression for at&t and T-mobile? Finally, things are looking up!
Preston @ Sep 21st 2007 12:21PM
Vodarizon
Robbie @ Sep 26th 2007 10:46PM
Veridafone
Victor @ Sep 21st 2007 12:29PM
Either way, Qualcomm is laughing all the way to the bank.
puzzled @ Sep 21st 2007 1:21PM
How is that the case? During the early days of LTE development there was an agreement achieved within 3GPP that no company would be dominant in IPR. That was so to avoid Qualcomm's dominance as it had happened in 3GPP2 (where Qualcomm even killed one of the tracks as they did not have the majority of the IPRs) and also to minimize the royalty model that exists in WCDMA. Also recently both Nokia (number 1 cell phone maker) and Motorola (number 3 cell phone maker) announced they will no longer be using Qualcomm's chips in their new designs for WCDMA. So how is Qualcomm laughing all the way to the bank? I must be missing something...
Badonkadonk @ Sep 21st 2007 5:13PM
Qualcomm bought Flarion, who hold the majority of patents relating to OFDM and OFDMA, which are used in both 802.11, WiMax and will be used in LTE.
Ergo, they can still bend people over.
ojfl @ Sep 21st 2007 6:10PM
If that were the case Qualcomm would already be reaping tons of dollars from all the WiFi equipment sold today. They do not. If Qualcomm had such a stronghold on OFDM patents Intel and 3GPP would not be pushing OFDM so hard. Jumping from one pair of handcuffs to another does not seem a good idea.
John @ Sep 22nd 2007 4:35AM
The big winner in all of this must be telcom manufacturer Ericsson. They have exaplicitely said that they don't believe in WiMax and they are putting a lot of effort into HSPA and LTE.
It would also probably mean that in the longer term we will Sony (Ericsson) phones on Verizon.
Godmera @ Sep 21st 2007 3:41PM
WCDMA
(Wideband Code Division Multiple Access)
Wideband CDMA is a third-generation (3G) wireless standard which utilizes one 5 MHz channel for both voice and data, initially offering data speeds up to 384 Kbps.
WCDMA is also referred to as UMTS - the two terms have become interchangeable.
WCDMA is the 3G standard that most GSM carriers are moving to. Parts of the WCDMA standard are based on GSM technology. WCDMA networks are designed to integrate with GSM networks at certain levels. Most WCDMA phones include GSM as well, for backward compatibility.
WCDMA borrows certain technology ideas from CDMA, as the name implies, but is in fact very different and incompatible with phones and networks using "CDMA" technology.
In Europe and Asia, WCDMA is being deployed in the all-new 2100 MHz frequency band. In North America, WCDMA is being deployed in the existing 1900 MHz (PCS) and 850 MHz (cellular) bands.
Definition of WCDMA from Phonescoop.com
mezmer0 @ Sep 25th 2007 11:05AM
Lol, it was only a matter of time that one of those CDMA carriers were going to make the switch. Too bad for the general CDMA fan that it was their knight in shining CDMA armor VZW. So I suppose they were truly tired of losing customers to at&t every year do to the fact you can do so much more with GSM/WCDMA. I am sure when they make the switch to OFDM they will begin to use SIM cards. I pretty much already forsaw this with the acquisition of some GSM spectrum and the fact that the FCC is pressuring carriers like vz and at&t to get off the 800mhz. And honestly in my opinion that one bandwidth is what vz still heavily realizes on, once that goes whoever gets the 700 bandwidth in my opinion will probably earn the better coverage (considering the lower the bandwidith the better it penetrates structures). Big blow to the CDMA fan base once again. Your phone is truly as good as your network (snickers).
elgee02 @ Sep 25th 2007 6:52PM
"So I suppose they were truly tired of losing customers to at&t every year do to the fact you can do so much more with GSM/WCDMA"
That statement is false. Ever since the Cingular/AT&T Wireless merger the subscriber lead Cingy (now AT&T) had over VZW has dwindled from 9 million to just over 1 million now.
blanemather @ Sep 28th 2007 10:34AM
Just a couple of thoughts:
* Cellular networks naturally must evolve, and generational changes require complete network buildouts. With the state of the art of this industry and the suggested change date of 2015, I expect that Verizon Wireless's buildout and conversion will be seamless and almost indetectable by the consumer.
* After a certain point, there will be no need to carry CDMA or any other legacy voice platform. The LTE data standard will be sufficient as all voice calling is projected to be VOIP at that time.
* A small percentage of well-informed, technically-advanced users frequently advocate in places like this that the VZW phone operating system software is too restrictive/locked. While the small minority of people who would like an unlocked device could indeed make good use of that open enviroment, the vast majority of cell phone users just want the device to work. Period. The consistent year-after-year pronouncements by industry analysts that Verizon has the best Quality of Call Service is due in no small part to the amount of control the company exercises over their devices.
* As far as innovation, variety and availability in handsets, this year has seen a turnaround in that performance. And there are some amazing devices on the horizon. I can't wait for the VX10000!
ryan @ Dec 4th 2007 6:00AM
verizon has good intentions, but a bad business model, and bad execution.
they've gone a little power hungry as well, don't you think? they have great coverage and their customer support is WAY better than sprint's. but now it seems as if they only care about money, and they will make excuses to do more things to get it.
and that's how the vzw ui came into existance.
ryan @ Dec 4th 2007 6:02AM
*addition*
if verizon switches to gsm, i will cancel my sprint contract in a new york minute.