Apple voiding warranties, blacklisting hacked iPhones?
[Via Digg, image courtesy of HamptonRoads]
[Via Digg, image courtesy of HamptonRoads]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
nikki @ Sep 21st 2007 12:22PM
Yes, that is correct ...when you unlock a device ...the warranty is void!!
supershawn @ Sep 24th 2007 6:50PM
@nikki. I am not sure which department you work for at ATT, but your statement is obviously not a company-wide policy. ATT gave me the unlock code for my Treo 750 after only two weeks of owning it. When the touchscreen died (not because of the unlock), they replaced it under warranty. They also provided me with the unlock code for the replacement handset. When the hard buttons died 5 weeks later, they replaced that handset as well. They also provided me with the unlock code for the third (second replacement)handset. Three handsets directly from ATT, three unlock codes directly from ATT.
Subsidy unlocking has absolutely nothing to do with warranty or repair.
Do you work for the same department that said HSPDA and WM6 would be available for the Treo 750 free by July 07? If so, your statement would actually make sense to me....
nikki @ Sep 24th 2007 7:04PM
ok...for the smart people that have treo 750s...they also have known issues that would be covered either way under warranty...and your issues just happen to be some of the known issues... no i dont work for whatever department you are referring to..next time check known issues for treos before purchasing..you seem happy to have to go thru replacing your phone not once but twice..enjoy your 1 year warranty while you still have it.
nikki @ Sep 24th 2007 7:10PM
btw... duh...we will give you the unlock codes if we have it...even if we (at&t) dont have it we will contact the manufacturer to get it.
Final Light @ Sep 21st 2007 12:39PM
what do u mean by hacking? unlocking it or changing the carrier logo and such or both...?
dhaasgob @ Sep 21st 2007 3:57PM
I would assume both jailbreaking for 3rd party software and carrier unlock.
It's true in the case of most Windows Mobile phones: application [security] unlocking the phone (not carrier unlock) constitutes a violation of the manufacturer's warranty. So I would imagine the same is true here.
The Apple Warranty clearly states that you have to have AT&T service (assuming the iPhone data plan) to be covered. They can check for the iPhone plan with one call to CS. I am very sure on that.
Final Light @ Sep 21st 2007 4:07PM
damn, i've only changed the wallpaper and carrier logo. I guess i'll have to do a restore if i ever need to take my iPhone for service...
James @ Sep 21st 2007 12:46PM
Nikki. I hope you are kidding. Getting any other phone unlocked on any other provider (T-Mobile, AT&T, etc.) does not void the warranty. Heck for most of the phones they will do it FOR YOU!!!
Now, the hacking to allow third party software, that I can see voiding the warranty for all except distinct hardware problems (i.e. batter no longer charging, screen issues, etc.) Just reflash and be done with it.
nikki @ Sep 21st 2007 1:27PM
nope im not kidding i work for at&t and i know if you purchase a device from at&t and you unlock it ...the warranty is void...if you do not believe me call in to warranty support and they will tell you.
oZ @ Sep 21st 2007 1:24PM
I hope someone sues Apple. There's a provision that allows people to unlock their phones, and if Apple wants to avoid someone damaging their phone, they need to provide a way for iPhone owners to unlock their phones in the graces of Apple.
Dicks.
chris @ Sep 25th 2007 1:33PM
"There's a provision that allows people to unlock their phones"
Uh? You are talking about the DMCA provision? Too bad that only covers copyright. Yea, you arent breaking copyright laws, but you sure as shit are still breaking TOS and tons of other legal things.
Just because its *not* breaking copyright laws doesnt mean its not breaking the law.
Killing someone isnt against the the DMCA.
oZ @ Sep 25th 2007 2:42PM
It isn't breaking a damn thing -- according to the addendum to the DMCA, they can't punish you for unlocking your phone if they won't do it for you.
chris @ Sep 25th 2007 4:06PM
the copyright office does *not* have control over legal terms and conditions or terms of service.. Christ almighty. Go read the damn legal document instead of believing everything you read on some fools blog. Idiot.
Brian @ Sep 21st 2007 1:26PM
I can't say that I disagree with Apple's stance on this (if in fact this isn't an isolated case). Why should they be expected to support something that isn't in the same state as they shipped it? In other words, flash your device to the factory firmware, and if you're still having problems, it may be an issue. But certainly they shouldn't be expected to support if a hardware-based unlock solution has been used or the device has otherwise been opened.
nikki @ Sep 21st 2007 1:32PM
if i may add...the only way the warranty will not be void will be thru apple..its their product and their rules...they may let iphone users keep their warranty havent heard any update about it yet... but as far as the other at&t devices..you unlock...bye bye warranty...if you say its not unlocked and send it back to warranty and they find out...you will be charged retail price on your next bill
PEZ @ Sep 21st 2007 1:36PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
BT @ Sep 21st 2007 1:48PM
Nikki, do you work for AT$T or Apple by the way? it seemed that you have "insider" knowledge on these sorts of things......care to share where you "gain" all that scoop?
nikki @ Sep 21st 2007 2:19PM
I work for at&t unfortunately. Don't have any inside info on the iphone...but they should have the 8925 available 10/1...if that hasn't been told. And no im not lying thru my teeth, I speak nothing but the truth or what info I've been told. I wouldn't want someone else feeding me lies. I'm the same way with the customers I speak to...straight forward (as long as i dont offend them).
Jvijil @ Sep 21st 2007 1:50PM
digruntled employee?? this could be an apple employee lying through his teeth
Dave Martorana @ Sep 21st 2007 2:00PM
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061124-8280.html
It's legal, via the DMCA restrictions list, to unlock your phone - and here's the fun part - specifically because the locking is only used to support a business model. If this goes to court, Apple will have a hard time defending a stance that both Congress and the Register of Copyrights have declared legal.
Further, companies are often read the riot act by judges when trying to void out their responsibility for a product they sold, especially when the particular function the user employed was... legal.
trooth @ Sep 21st 2007 3:50PM
It wont go to court, the copyright law only affects copyrights. No one is being prosecuted for unlocking their phone now. Prior to that the end user could be taken to court for violating copyright laws when they unlocked their phone. All this says it is not a violation of copyright laws. The government explanation says, "This is a noninfringing activity by the user... The purpose of the software lock appears to be limited to restricting the owners use of the mobile handset to support a business model, rather than to protect access to a copyrighted work itself."
Again, this is an exemption to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). The DMCA does not set forth business practices to be used for cell phone manufacturers or carriers. It has absolutely no bearing on warranty issues, nor does it mean that cell phone carriers have to activate unlocked phones on their network (this works because the SIM card takes care of that for you).
Installing any firmware to unlock your phone or doing anything that is not provided by the manufacturer may be legal, but that does not mean that anyone has to continue to support the device you have altered. Dropping your phone off a cliff is legal, but no court will side with the user who demands his carrier/manufacturer to warranty after such an event. Likewise the manufacturer/carrier will only be expected to honor a warranty on a device that has not been altered in any way, shape, or form outside of updates/changes performed by the manufacturer/carrier.
Why would you expect them to warranty something that they did not do, or provide? That is completely rediculous. Beyond that IPhone hackers should note that they are still violating copyright laws by modifying any other portion of the phone's software other than unlocking the phone. Things like that are only enforced when it cuts into profits, but still changing the code is a violation of the copyright law.
Jason @ Sep 21st 2007 3:39PM
You guys are funny. Apple can't be sued for not honoring the warranty if someone breaks the Terms and Conditions of service for the iPhone. Just because it's legal to unlock a phone doesn't mean Apple is legally obligated to honor a warranty who's terms you have violated.
Personally, I love modifying and "hacking" (a misnomer, I know) all sorts of electronics, but I've never seriously expected a manufacturer to cover my ass if things get messed up.
Matt @ Sep 24th 2007 11:41PM
Of course Apple can be sued for not providing service. It doesn't mean they'll win though. And they'd almost certainly end up with a net loss after paying lawyers.
Sal @ Sep 21st 2007 4:23PM
I wonder if using itoner voids the warranty since ur not actually jailbreaking the phone
nick fulp @ Sep 21st 2007 7:35PM
It should be the same as car warranties, just becasue you added a aftermarket part to your car, and something else broke on your car, automakers used to deny the warranty based soley on the fact that there was a aftermarket part on the car. SEMA and aftermarket companies challenged this, and it was ruled by the courts that in order for a manufactuer to void your warranty based on that, they had to explicitly prove that the said aftermarket part caused the problem. It should be the same with cell phones, if i install a software program on my phone and the screen just goes dim weeks after the software and the company denys the warranty, thats crap....unless they can prove that the software i installed actually caused the problem. so same goes for the iphone, even though the phone has been unlocked(software) and it has the neg. black issue like the ipod touch(which you cannot unlock as its not a phone) it should be covered regardless, as thats a manufactuer defect.
Richard Lee @ Sep 21st 2007 9:49PM
Well... this is scary. The main reason I didn't get an iPhone before now is the lack of add-on programs. Now that you can add programs with a hack, I was thinking of getting one. I guess I won't if it means I won't have a warranty.
Noah @ Sep 22nd 2007 12:42AM
This is exactly why I won't buy an iPhone until all of this stuff is official. I'd love to think I was sending Apple a message with my dollars by not buying it now that their incomplete product isn't worth the high costs they've put on it, but then there are the hundreds of thousands of people with no *self-control* who will prolong the delay of the SDK by hacking it. Great, you got your Pirate Photo app, but as long as you do that, and lure people into buying the device for the hacks and not what the device officially does, Apple has even less pressure or incentive to offer us an official SDK, or warranty support around it. Way to go.
trooth @ Sep 25th 2007 1:55AM
For whatever reason most people think that the law regaurding unlocked phones is different than it is. It basically states that you can not be prosecuted for unlocking your phone. Prior to the law hacking a phone's software could land you in court for violating copyright issues. This is the same way Microsoft, Sony, and Tivo for example go after people that hack XBoxes, Playstations, and Tivos. The decision said that it was not a violation of copyright, and therefore you can freely unlock and hack any phone you want without fear of prosecution. The law however in no way shape or form states that carriers have to accept unlocked devices, and obviously it is does not protect you from violating your warranty on your device.
Since Apple has a 5 year agreement with AT&T stating that AT&T will be the only US carrier to have the IPhone, and the fact that AT&T doesnt make money from the sale of the devices, and on top of that Apple makes a percentage from the monthly services charges this is a very interesting issue. Simply put when an Iphone is unlocked and taken to another network, Apple and AT&T both lose income. That Iphone on TMobile's network means that apple does not make anything from the monthly service charges. AT&T gets the shaft all around if a phone is purchased unlocked and they dont keep service with AT&T.
I would expect both companies to actively pursue measures to prevent this from happening, and if it happens to pursue measures in recouping costs. For AT&T I would expect hefty ETF's for IPhones or at least a closing of the PrePay IPhone loophole. For Apple, they can find ways to cripple functionality of unlocked phones, and keep pushing patches that try to beat the hackers (which is a lost cause). Voiding the Warranty should be a given.
chris @ Sep 25th 2007 2:47PM
Yea you are right about it being just a copyright law. If apple says 'by buying this phone you agree to sign up for a at&t 2 year contract' (which i believe they do), yes, you may not be breaking copyright, but you sure as hell are still breaking a contract between yourself and apple/at&t.
And.. i think its funny people are complaining about apple refusing service... you've broken their terms.. why shouldnt they break yours?