Not a lot here, but for those clammoring for any possible news about the iPhone, we got our hands on an internal AT&T iPhone Q&A document. The highlights:
- With an iPhone you'll have access to Cingular's MyAccount via the device as well as via iTunes.
- Sorry, no pre-orders (yet).
- If one wants to read tea leaves, it's still probable there will be iPhone specific service plans.
- "... no subsidies are being offered on the phone at this time." You heard 'em!
- They will "allow" out of contract customers to sign up for two more years to get an iPhone. Sui generis!
Full document after the break.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Moff @ Apr 25th 2007 3:02PM
That's the only thing that will kill the iPhone.. being exclusive on Cingular (or AT&T.. or whatever)...
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Xultar @ Apr 25th 2007 3:04PM
So wrong to leak that crap. I kinda like it though because proves that it is Cingular employee's that are their own worst enemy.
Roc Lastinger @ Apr 25th 2007 3:09PM
will you be able to use the phone as a modem for your laptop?
Mystic @ Apr 25th 2007 3:17PM
So it looks like I should get sign a Cingular contract now, get the $150 discount on a phone, and then buy the iPhone when it comes out since there are no subsidies on it?
Ocho @ Jun 28th 2007 1:48AM
fat chance. No one get's a discount. NO One! Not even the Employee's. Even worse At&t employee's were told they would not be able to buy the new Iphone. "What The Hell!"
C. Grant @ Apr 25th 2007 3:22PM
No subsidies, but I still have to sign a two year contract? As horribly as I want the iPhone, my list of complaints is growing uncomfortably long.
Kevin @ Apr 25th 2007 3:23PM
Okay so if there are no subsidies, and these things will be available at Apple stores, as a T-Mobile customer, can I just waltz in and pick one up? I really don't see Apple store employees forcing me to sign up for a cingular plan in the store...
I guess the only hurdle would be whether or not the phones come locked. Someone will figure that out though.
The other hurdle would be whether or not T-mobile's network will work with the "visual voicemail"
grundler @ Apr 25th 2007 3:45PM
Oh please AT&T, let me buy an iphone from you. You don't have to do anything about the price. I'll pay the full price that apple charges. I'll even commit to you for 2 years just for the privilege of being able to buy your EDGE speed phone with unproven track record. Hey you know what? if an upgrade and a different model comes out in the 2 years (which apple and most every manufacturer always does!), i will gladly keep my 2 yr old technology or sign another 2 years and you can not do anything else for me. oh please, please. *dripping sarcasm* what a piece of crock--2 yr contract and no subsidies! Keep your iphone. I like my blackjack just fine, thank you. I'll wait until people start complaining of all the bugs (yes--there will be some!) and laugh... for two years!!
Adam Yellin @ Apr 25th 2007 3:49PM
Does anyone know if the phone will have an interchangeable SIM card or a hardware one like present Cingular phones? I travel to Asia often and usually trade out my SIM card for a local one and avoid the crazy roaming charges.
Mystic @ Apr 25th 2007 3:53PM
#7. Again, why the hell do people who hate Apple insist on wasting their time like you just did? Oh, is it because you're jealous because you can't afford the iPhone? Maybe instead of writing 'blah hate blah Apple blah" posts, go get an education or better paying job.
beanspants @ Apr 25th 2007 4:00PM
regular cingular phones have removable sims #8.
DMZ @ Apr 25th 2007 4:03PM
"Does anyone know if the phone will have an interchangeable SIM card or a hardware one like present Cingular phones?"
The last thing Cingular wants you to do is swap a SIM card out. If they did, you'd see Cingular customers buying iPhones and selling them over eBay.
OGHowie @ Apr 25th 2007 4:03PM
@9
Right, cause everyone that doesn't want an iPhone is poor or stupid...
rongold @ Apr 25th 2007 4:25PM
Why do they need to give access to Cingular's MyAccount content while utilizing iTunes? Will we need to check to see how many minutes we have left to download songs. And hey, wait a minute, speaking of possibly downloading songs - this seems to infer that iTunes on the iPhone will be tied somehow to Cingular's service. This hasn't been brought to light before. WILL I be able to download songs on the iPhone?
Jason @ Apr 25th 2007 4:28PM
Especially all those poor people reading Engadget during work hours... must be doing it on the communal PC in the factory during a 5 minute break.
Dagobert @ Apr 25th 2007 4:35PM
"Cingular and Apple have formed a multi-year exclusive partnership, leveraging the strengths of both companies, to create revolutionary new wireless products. The first of these products is the iPhone ..."
Is there much more to come???
Don @ Apr 25th 2007 4:53PM
Wait...under "Features: WiFi?!?
If it does Wifi, I might buy it. More likely, it's a marketing typo, right? Or did I miss some announcement somewhere?
tirm @ Apr 25th 2007 4:54PM
#6- Cingular had to make network infrastructure changes to support Visual Voicemail. That is something other carriers were unwilling to do. Therefore, no.
Mark @ Apr 25th 2007 4:56PM
#16- Yes it has Wifi. If it finds a hot spot it automatically switches to it. If it does not then it defaults to the phone network.
Treo Cell Phone Fan @ Apr 25th 2007 4:59PM
Keep in mind that the retail price they are offering reqire you to sign a 2-year contract. I wonder how much the iphone will cost without a contract.
Bryan @ Apr 25th 2007 5:08PM
A few replies:
To #3, according to the March issue of Macworld magazine:
"One thing Apple did tell us is that you won't be able to use the iPhone as a wireless Bluetooth modem for a laptop (at least that’s the current plan)."
To #6 and #19, also in the same Macworld article:
"Does that mean I have to use AT&T as my iPhone service provider?
Yes. Both iPhone models will require a two-year contract with AT&T, the exclusive U.S. carrier. Apple has no plans to release a version of the iPhone without a service contract or one that is unlocked."
Based on that and what was said by Jobs during the keynote, I believe that the Mac Store employees will in fact be forcing you to sign AT&T contracts before they hand over the iPhone. Also, as far as your final question, the visual voicemail system requires a redesign of the voicemail servers as well. So assuming you managed to get an iPhone without a contract AND you managed to get the phone unlocked and running on the T-Mobile network, the visual voicemail system wouldn't work.
Finally to #8 and #11, one of the Apple released diagrams of the iPhone specifies a “SIM card slot” located towards the top of the phone somewhere between the headset jack and the sleep/wake button. Cingular would have nothing to lose if you sell your iPhone on eBay since you will still be tied to a two year contract with them either way. If anything, they gain from the possibility that people will purchase a smaller secondary phone for times when the iPhone might be too bulky.
churchill @ Apr 25th 2007 5:08PM
Who will be the service provider of iphone in canada?
Maurice @ Apr 25th 2007 5:20PM
Too bad the US Copyright Office ruled that any locked phone can be unlocked legally since Nov 2006. Not to say that there may not be some secret sauce that AT&T & Apple put in the iPhone that would restrict it from working on a non-AT&T GSM network. Not likely since AT&T loves to tout their "all-over network" (read: romaing agreements with T-Mobile in the US) and charge an arm & a leg for int'l roaming.
Have the AT&T rep read paragraph 5 before reluctantly unlocking your new iPhone: http://www.copyright.gov/1201/
Jose Chu @ Apr 25th 2007 5:20PM
I want one too! In Brazil!
matto @ Apr 25th 2007 5:26PM
Does this posting sound fishy to anyone else...AT&T is going nuts about rebranding the cingular name. You would think that all internal memos would use AT&T's name instead of Cingular.
Just a thought.
:matto
carlo @ Apr 25th 2007 5:30PM
It doesn't say anything that most of us already know--save the confirmation of no subsidy.
Looks like a press release.
T @ Apr 25th 2007 5:32PM
On the wi-fi switching over networks.. Mark, I do not think the iPhone is going to be a dual-mode phone in that regard.
And to all the haters, don't worry.. they won't even have enough to sell all the people that actually want to buy one for months!
grundler @ Apr 25th 2007 5:34PM
#9 I am sure that my phd in mathematics does qualify me as uneducated. moreover, i guess the mac mini in my home entertainment system, the former power book i cherished until its premature demise, the g4 power mac i used and loved until it died after many years of loyal service and my lovely green ipod mini qualify me as an "apple hater."
#17) Again, I don't care if they did redesign their network. They can and will recover that expense in the monthly charge they will undoubtedly have for use of these exclusive services. Just hitting us up twice? Additionally, they are doing those improvements and such for their own self gain because they see this as an opportunity to get new users, which they will. So this is an expense of doing business and growing.
Nah... I'll wait. But if apple makes this phone what i think they can, believe me--i'll be camping out to get one. I camped out to get a nintendo wii afterall. I'm just waiting for the right combination of factors.
Bryan @ Apr 25th 2007 5:47PM
@ #22
The AT&T rep doesn't have to read anything. As far as I can see, the article that you linked to just states that you can't be sued for unlocking your phone. It doesn't appear to specifically state that AT&T has to do it for you.
The law also only addresses unlocking the phones firmware for the purpose of CONNECTING to another network. It doesn't specify that other features need to keep working.
Lastly, there is still the issue that you have to sign a 2yr contract to get the phone. If you immediately cancel your service to use it on T-Mobile, you just tacked an extra $200 (at minimum, higher if they write an iPhone specific contract) onto the already $499-599 pricetag.
Broo @ Apr 25th 2007 6:52PM
wait- so this is a cell phone that can also play music? what will those clever Apple guys think of next?
Scott @ Apr 25th 2007 7:01PM
For all you contract-wiggy people: Sorry, but there's nothing in that document about contracts. In fact, at the top of the second page, it says "Details of rate plans AND CONTRACTS will be available closer to the launch date."
Also on subsidies, no subsidies "at this time". Could well offer'em later.
With no subsidies at launch date, they'd be pushing it to require signing a 2-year contract while having to buy the unit at full price. Guess we'll see.
Weezerdie @ Apr 25th 2007 7:02PM
Honestly I am the biggest Apple fan in the world but with the Iphone, there is a big reason why the number one phone provider in the country passed on it. There is a reason why Apple went to them first. Its expensive and almost impractical (but badass) when you are forced into a 2 year contract just to have the "privledge" to buy the phone. While there will be a demand for it, its not going to take off like the Razr until it moves out of exclusiveness and becomes more affordable. I for one would never switch to ATT for any reason... not even for an Iphone...What good is the phone if the service never works? Id rather stick with Verizon despite there Nazi "Bluetooth locking" tactics... Ill pick up the Samsung F700 for 300 bucks and where it wont be a Iphone... atleast it wont be ATT
myke3630 @ Apr 25th 2007 7:18PM
So, what's really to stop you from setting up new service on a 2 year contract, only to cancel said service within 2 days and not return your equipment?Unless they're going to start blocking IMEI's ...
I know if you got a discount, then yes, they'd charge you the difference, but you're not getting a deal on it in the first place.
BeyondtheTech @ Apr 25th 2007 7:22PM
4 million songs!? What capacity! I suppose I'll just throw away my 60GB iPod now.
Daniel @ Apr 25th 2007 8:37PM
@ #33 - Yeah, you totally misread the document. They're just stating you'll have access to all iTunes content which includes 4 million songs.
Some Kind of Hero @ Apr 25th 2007 8:38PM
Any word on the battery life yet...? I've heard all things from only 40mins talktime, to 6 hours.
minh @ Apr 25th 2007 9:46PM
apple WILL release this phone on other networks. they WILL eventually release this phone with no carrier locks. it might not be locked as it is. there is no possible way that apple would release this phone on only one network in only one country. the ROKR was supposed to be exclusive to cingular but OEM versions were sold overseas before it was launched here.
as for the iphone itself, i will not get one. it looks great on paper. large screen. 8gb hard drive. wifi, web browser, full media capabilities. 599 is not too bad for a cell phone at all. HOWEVER, i will not be able to live with only 100% touchscreen typing. no tactile feedback + super dirty screen = loser. plus with that whole integrated design, you wont be able to change out your case if you drop your phone and anytime your battery decides to stop working or anything you cant just get a new one. you'll have to send your phone in. The Nokia E90 looks like a winner to me.
Will @ Apr 25th 2007 10:50PM
Weezerdie: what is to stop you from doing that? well there's this thing called the collections agency that would be more than happy to ruin your credit rating...that's part of the contract, if you cancel within your contract you must return the phone
Michael @ Apr 26th 2007 12:32AM
As much as I am intrigued by the iPhone, and as much as I have bought every gadget that Apple has ever brought out, including the Newton, I won't be buying a phone that runs on AT&Ts network. BAD experience.
I have even recently gone through the effort of buying a couple of $30 throw-away prepaid phones for the AT&T network simply to test the network coverage. It sucks. No coverage at all inside my house, even though their coverage map claims I am in the middle of dense coverage. Dropped calls everywhere else.
I recommend anyone considering the iPhone just goes out and buys a prepay Cingular phone as a test. You can pick one up for $25 and that includes $10 in airtime. Thats 10 days of unlimited in-network calling, and you choose the days. Perfectly sufficient to put the network through its paces. Buy two and you can simulate the usage you would have with the iPhone with you S.O. At the end, just throw the phones away.... Might save you from a very expensive mistake...
I had a Cingular account in the past and had nightmarish customer service problems.
So, I actually just renewed my Verizon contract. They are right about one thing: the network is all that matters. A dead gadget is just a dead gadget...
Michael
Jeff Lewis @ Apr 26th 2007 2:02AM
#9 - Probably the same thing that motivates Apple fanboys from dumping endless 'you need to buy a Mac' and 'Windoze suxxors' messages on Engadget whenever they post an even moderately positive message about PCs or Windows...
What goes around...
#8 & #11 All GSM phones have to support SIM cards. The SIM card isn't what locks the phone to the network, so just sticking in a new SIM from some other network won't work. Given that this is a closed box, it's not sure how easy it'll be to unlock it.
Given that this phone is being sold full price and locked to the Cingular network, I'm utterly bewildered by why Cingular is requiring a plan with it.
Vonage has a kind of visual voicemail delivered by browser nonetheless, although it's not really for cellphones (but I can access it through my WinMo cellphone...).
And finally - pretty much everything that's so 'hot' about the iPhone I could do on my WinMo based cellphone two years ago with two exceptions: multitouch (hey - Apple owns the patent) and visual voicemail.
What the heck? When the iPhone comes out, I should write a shell for my phone to emulate it. :) Because.. you know... YOU CAN write new apps for WinMo or Symbian.
RS @ Apr 26th 2007 11:02AM
Where do all you people live who say Cingular service is horrible? I am Cleveland, Ohio and I have never been anywhere where I have had less then 3 bars of service. I've driven to Tennessee, Misissippi, Chicago and New York from Cleveland and never been in a place where I lost signal, or dropped calls using my Treo or my standard Motorola flip phone. I'm pretty much using my phone the entire trip, and never had problems.
As for the iPhone, I'll probably buy one but only because I always buy gadgets I don't need. But as for signing a new contract, if they're not giving me any discounts, I'm not signing anything.
elgee02 @ Apr 26th 2007 1:46PM
"But as for signing a new contract, if they're not giving me any discounts, I'm not signing anything."
Then it looks like you won't be getting an iPhone.
Lars @ Apr 26th 2007 5:43PM
I'm not interested in this version of the iPhone (it lacks features we in Europe on our next-gen networks need) and I'm baffled why they didn't take the opportunity to make the iPhone battery removable.
Even my first mobile, the Nokia 3210, had one I could change when it wore out.
Matt @ Apr 26th 2007 8:54PM
it is Apple's thing...look at the ipod, the battery is not user serviceable... it does reduce the amount of issues caused by 3rd party batteries causing damage to devices...the problem is to logically do this, you need a killer battery with the phone to begin with
L Kjhhh @ Apr 27th 2007 2:20AM
'UnlockToTalk.com' recently shepparded me through their 15 min, DYI GSM UNLOCK program using only the old and new SIM CARDs in addition to my (locked up until then) gsm cellphone. Webchat and/or phone staffers were friendly, intellegent, and everythimg worked immediately. They listed many models covered by their service. And for only a few bucks. I chose UTT somewhat randomly from my google search results. I read that others offered similar services. (ps I am not a geek, I am just a satisfied customer, and I am not a ringer for UTT.)
I wonder if UTT can/will work in the iphone too. Anyway, one would need a good reason to switch gsm carriers. Maybe even use cellcos when travelling in other countries, eg bring my Iphone to Canada.
I understand the Iphone-modem for laptop is not an offered function presently, however, I wonder what kind of (DIY, eg soft) modem functions can be run through the iphone's bluetooth.
gsm data...now, just don't get me started on the unbelievable Apr 13 RENEG by cellco Rogers-FIDO Canada on customer's gsm data and roaming 'agreements'. Can one trust this provider's agreements? Ask around. But hey, CRTC calls it 'ok, with competition' up here in Canada. I call it something else.
tincho @ Apr 27th 2007 2:38PM
Excuse MY IGNORANCE but what does it mean when the phone is subsidies or not subsidies.
I just can't wait to have it.
jared @ Apr 27th 2007 3:03PM
1. Every cell service provider in the US has tragically overpriced data service; I just don't get the Verizon vs Cingular griping.
2. Saying "this thing will basically do what my winmo/symbian/whatever does" is like saying "OS X does basically what XP/Vista/Linux does" or "Google maps does basically what MapQuest did 4 years ago." You're obviously correct, and you're just as obviously missing the point.
3. No 3rd-party development is a huge downside, and there's no point trying to sugarcoat it.
4. On the other hand, consider the number of (free) software updates Apple is likely to release for this thing, particularly for stuff like integration with the AppleTV, iChat theatre, and whatever beefed up calendaring is built into Leopard.
5. Overall, this thing might have 'phone' in the name, but it's a lot easier to see the value if you think of it as a pocket-sized OS X machine with wifi, bluetooth, and multitouch.
dan @ Apr 27th 2007 4:00PM
To the guy who said that he tested Cingular prepaid service. I sure hope you looked at the coverage map for it, because it's about half the size of the standard rateplan map.
Robbie @ Apr 27th 2007 8:16PM
@8 all cingular phones have interchangeable SIM cards. it would be a big mess if they didn't. cingular systems (read: dumb cst srvc reps) can do many things that could cause your sim card to need replacing.
i think you mean "can these phones be used with another carrier's sim card?"
if cingular locks these phones, you will not be able to use anyone else's sim cards
@13 gsm does not bill data as airtime. kilobyte usage is measured. technologically it should be possible to download them directly to your iphone over the air, but it would use a lot of data and edge is slow. you would need to be really patient and have an unlimited data plan. the document mentions a lot about "plans coming soon". im thinking maybe they are going to make an iphone plan that includes unlimited data.
@15 3g
@22 AT&T customer service doesn't even have access to any programs that would provide the unlock code
@32 if you dont return the phone then you will pay your ETF still. ETF is only waived upon receipt of the phone
@36 hell ya the nokia e90 will be the winner! i cant wait!
@39 there is already an iphone emulator for WinMo phones. i already have it :). it came out right after screen shots of the iphone in use were available. lol. i loaded it on my cingular 8125. works great.
@38 & 47 if you are a postpaid client and you are not in an area directly covered by cingular, then your phone will pick up signal from the next preferred network. i dont know if prepaid does that because it costs cingular extra money that they dont pass on to customers (unlike other companies). so it could be that youre in a spot on the map that normally would have signal from a carrier that they have an agreement with for postpaid, but maybe not prepaid? i dont know for sure, but since comment 47 said the maps are different, then this would explain it. also to comment 38, maybe you are in an area that is being covered by a partner and it is their network that is giving you bad signal. cingular customers can always call customer service and have them update the preferred network list on your sim card.
@ EVERYONE... am i the only one actually reading this document? why is everyone still debating contract stuff? does it not clearly say "An existing customer can purchase the iPhone for the same price as a new customer". So it doesnt sound like you would need a contract. And if you do, then someone would be dumb to buy this as their primary phone. Sign up to get a discounted phone and also get an iphone. For those of you having a 3g fit, get the LG CU500v with video sharing as your primary phone for only $30! then also buy the iphone since its the same price for existing customers.
mr.madison @ Apr 28th 2007 12:01PM
well from what ive read in order for the iphone to go into the european market THEY much offer a unlocked version. If thats true do we really think they are gonna keep the iphone a USA only thing?if so thats the dumbest thing ever.